Gt’s 

Now that senior year is coming to a end its been good times and not so good times thinking back on high school and all that has been done. When Mr. A announced this Bucket List assignment the first thing I thought of was Denny trying to catch a football. Then I focused and thought about the actual assignment at hand. A bucket list is gts. Here is what I wrote. 

Bucket List: 

Hangout with my boys

Casino 

Take my parents out for dinner 

Hangout with my sisters 

Meet with an old Pastor 

Climb a water tower 

Have lunch with a kid I am mentoring 

Sleep on the roof

Sleep out in a car

Do some final pranks 

This was the majority of what I had. I was not able to complete most of these. I was able to complete a few however. Having dinner with my parents. I was not able to take them out. But I ate at home with them three nights in a row sit down style. We were able to talk and enjoy each other and the stories we all had to share. Mainly me talking about how Aaron got suspended. I will really miss being at home and having dinners made by my mom. It truly is a blessing that I have overlooked for most of my life. I wish I would have given my parents more priority when it came to my free time. They are the ones who have and will always be there for me. 

I really enjoy making memories with the people I love. The day of senior chapter is exactly the kind of thing that should have been on my bucket list. Being able to sit in a circle and look at the people I have done life with for the last four years was a gift that I will cherish forever. Being able to hear all of say very uplifting things to one another was also really cool. My favorite part was the fact that there were no awkward pauses between people. In fact for most people we had to go over the limit of three complements. To end the year with all of my classmates who are practically family on a good note was great.  It was good to have closure, peace, and laughs with everyone as a whole group one last time. 

Its funny how after three years of listening to seniors talk about how fast time goes. How they wish they could have a little more so on and so forth. Its so very true. Except for the fact about wanting more time. I am ready to start this new adventure of my life. I am looking forward to whats ahead. I believe all my classmates feel the same way. Its not bad to say you are looking forward to the future. You can still miss something and be excited for something at the same time. What I truly will miss the most is the atmosphere of “family.” Whether it was a good day or a bad it was a day with family. Being able to go to a place five days a week for 8 hours a day with people I genuinely enjoy being with was awesome! I hope they enjoyed being with me….they probably didn’t. 

Heritage has been a huge part of my life. The school and faculty have been great. I respect and appreciate about 90% of what they do. The left over 10% just blows chow. I love the school and am really happy my nephew is attending and hope he will stay here as long as possible. Its important to know where you came from. Heritage has given me a good and clear picture of that. I will be able to carry that with me where ever I go. 

I know this isn’t much of a bucket list blog. First of all the time frame Mr. A gave us to do this was just completely unrealistic. Secondly, I am not a planner. I hate planning things. I like living in the flow of life. Whether that is dodging bullets from poor decisions or stumbling upon gts. For instance today me and Ryan went to the Twins game. That wasn’t on my bucket list but it held the same essence of what I would want to be on my bucket list. The essence is basically enjoying every minute with those I cherish. Not having having bad times and on looking for good times. 

Bucket lists are for chumps. Live life one day at a time walking with your savior and stumbling upon gts with your loved ones. The best memories are the ones not planned. Example: T-tripper spilling extremely hot pizza on his upper thigh at 1 in the morning. Thats gts.  

  

Whos makin the sandwiches?  

Gender roles are a very popular topic to discuss. It comes up a lot. Everybody has their own opinion on what men and women can and cannot do. This conflict has been in existence from the very beginning. We have gradually moved forward as a society in our efforts for gender equality. Women have defiantly had the steeper climb to equal rights than men. Men have just had the upper hand since day one. I really don’t care who you or what your opinion is on this topic, but women have always been after men. I personally can’t think of something that is really important that women were allowed to do before men.

List of things Men have done first:

Working-Men 

Voting-Men 

Space-Men  

Created-Men

Human Offspring-Men

Get a Credit card-Men 

Having Good jokes-Men

Being Good at driving-Men

List of things Women have done first: 

Sin-Women

Make a Sandwich-Women 

So as you can see men have had clear jump on women from the start. I don’t know why that is but if I had to guess I would say something like this. “And to the man he said, Since you listened to your wife and ate from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat, the ground is cursed because of you. All your life you will struggle to scratch a living from it.” (Gen. 3:17) Men have been doing the heavy lifting. So ultimately men became the stronger of the two. Consequentially, with strength comes power. I think that is the root of all gender inequality. 

Some who say they know me well would call me a sexist or caveman because of my opinions relating towards this topic. Now I myself would not prefer to use terms like that. I think of myself as realist when it comes to this matter. When it comes to women in leadership it doesn’t bother me until they reach the role at the top. Women should not be allowed to have top-dog roles. Unless the whole business or establishment is females. I am ok with it then. Females over females is ok. Females over men not ok.  Think about it. Most of us have grown up in houses were our fathers have been the alpha figure. Women and men will follow a man, but a women can only receive the following of one or the other. 

Ok…after a long talk with Glo I would like to make it clear that I am very pro women. I am a big fan of what they do for our society and all that they contribute. I would like to share this quote from Matthew Henry. “The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.” 

I believe that in a biblical sense the line of submission goes a little like this. Men are supposed to submit to God. By submit I mean live in community with him and obey him. Do his will and only his will. Then women are supposed to submit under men. In the same way that men submit to God. Ultimately there shouldn’t be any problems with this unless the man is not fully submitting to God. This is biblical –  1 Corinthians 11:3 – “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.”

Another point I would like to discuss is women’s role in the church. I believe that women should be allowed to help and serve a church as they please as long as it doesn’t involve them being a shepherd/elder or a main pastor. I do not believe a church should be led by a women.  I think God believes this as well. 

1 Timothy 2:12 – “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

1 Corinthians 14:34 – “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

Titus 2:4 – “That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children…”

These verses are very clear on the women’s role in the church. They are also repetitive, which means that it is important information that should not be overlooked. Women should stick to women/children ministries if they want to do anything in the church. 

In conclusion I would like to state that I like women.  This sums up my opinion on the matter.   Women will never be as successful as men because they have no wives to advise them.

Dick Van Dyke

“Women will never be as successful as men because they have no wives to advise them.”

  

Possibility Possible 

We are met with decisions, choices, and possibilities constantly throughout our lives. I believe that the idea that naturalists hold about everything being determined is just a bunch of malarky. Theres no way that they want to believe that everything they do or happens in their life is determined and is a product of a fallen domino. Living a life full of options and so called possibilities is the ideal scenario. But what if these options have been pre-determined. The winner of a game was determined before the match had begun. If you knew what was determined and what wasn’t you would be a man among boys. You would feel like Marty Mcfly from Back to the Future.   

Now as much fun as that would be, your life would be filled with the outcomes of other events. I personally do not find that to be how I want my life to be defined. I believe that when naturalists say that life is determined and we have no say in what will happen, they are just saying that to stay consistent with the rest of their belief system. I find the meaning of my life in Christ. A naturalist finds the meaning of their life in whats right in front of them. This may not seem like a bad system for some, although as soon as that “thing” is over, gone, finished, what do they have left…nothing. They then have to find another “thing.”  This seems to be a life full of the lack of meaning. 

I would tend to agree, without free will life’s meaning would be entirely sucked out. Everything you think you work for or desire has simply been decided for you. All possibilities would be gone. Whether good or bad, there would be no place for them. There cannot be choices without free will. A choice is when both options (although one may be better) are given and are equally attainable. For one, I like to believe that I have some control over the decisions I make involving my life. Richie D. may be able to live fine believing that he has no say in what he does and is simply a piece of machinery doing only what has been decided for him to do. 

I have been a little harsh. Although it may be hard and nearly impossible to find true meaning in a life without free will. As Lloyd Christmas would say, “so your saying theres a chance!” There may be a chance of someone finding meaning. Your meaning could be in a legacy that you leave. I think this is about all the meaning you could find and yet its still not entirely meaningful. Your legacy is the product of actions that were made for you. So the meaning of your life as a naturalist would be found in how “meaning” or significance is defined to you. 

I hope by now you realize that free will is a part of my worldview. I choose to believe in free will for these reasons. I believe God gave it to us as a gift. I think that life without it would be utterly pointless. I also, think that its something that all humans ultimately want to believe. They might try to convince themselves, their whole life, that its not real, but that does not mean in their heart they believe it. I might be making an assumption, but I think naturalist all the way up to big Rich himself want to believe in this idea of freewill and that the world is a closed system. 

I’ll explain what I mean by freewill is a gift from God. Why would God create a world full of robots? We are created in the image of God so that in itself is evidence that we have some bits of freewill instilled in our being. Unless you want to make the argument that God does not demonstrate characteristics of freewill. If everything was determined life would blow chow! Thats a fact everyone knows and a fact that Richard himself ignores everyday he calls himself a naturalist. 

I think its foolish to think that God created us absent of freewill. I also, believe its hard to call yourself a follower of Christ if you believe that freewill is non-existent. You didn’t decide to follow Christ it was a effect to cause. You never accepted the gift of salvation. It would not even be an option. If you live in a world without freewill you live in a world without options, choices, possibilities. All you get is the effect of the cause that came from the previous effect. 

It’s safe to say that freewill opens up our world to many possibilities that God has for us. It’s what makes us unique in the image of God. 



Naturalism WikiNotes

NATURALISM

theory that relates scientific method to philosophy by affirming that all beings and events in the universe (whatever their inherent character may be) are natural.

-Aims at a detached, scientific objectivity in the treatment of natural man -More inclusive and less selective than realism -Holds to the philosophy of determinism–the doctrine that everything, especially one’s choice of action, is determined by a sequence of causes independent of one’s will -Conceives of man as controlled by his instincts or his passions or by his social and economic environment and circumstances -Believes that man has no free will -all knowledge of the universe falls within the pale of scientific investigation -denies the existence of truly supernatural realities -makes allowance for the supernatural, provided that knowledge of it can be had indirectly—that is, that natural objects be influenced by the so-called supernatural entities in a detectable way. (Mikaela Lien)

Swing figures in the shift from theism to naturalism:
– Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Theist that set the stage by conceiving of the universe as a giant mechanism of “matter” which people comprehend by “mind.” Naturalists took this idea by making the mind a subcategory of mechanistic matter. (Austin J.)
– John Locke (1632-1714)
Theist that thought our God-given reason is the judge of what can be taken as true from the revelation in the Bible. The naturalists removed the “God-given from from this conception and made “reason” the sole criterion for truth. (Austin J.)

First proposition: matter exists eternally and is all there is. God does not exist. In theism and deism, god is a key factor of the religion. When deism progressed to naturalism, God was eliminated all together. “the cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be.”(Carl Sagan) Nothing comes from nothing, something is. Therefore something always was (Katelyn Strauss)

A naturalistic methodology (sometimes called an “inductive theory of science”) has its value, no doubt…. I reject the naturalistic view: It is uncritical. Its upholders fail to notice that whenever they believe to have discovered a fact, they have only proposed a convention. Hence the convention is liable to turn into a dogma. This criticism of the naturalistic view applies not only to its criterion of meaning, but also to its idea of science, and consequently to its idea of empirical method.— Karl R. Popper (Jacob Bergstedt)

Basics of Naturalism:
1. Matter exists eternally and is all there is. God does not exist.

The cosmos itself becomes eternal compared to deism, and theism where God is the key factor. (Mikayla Danielson)

The cosmos exists as a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system.
Different from deism is that the universe my or may not be conceived as a machine or clockwork. (Mikayla Danielson)

Human beings are complex “machines”; personality is an interrelation of chemical and physical properties we do not yet fully understand.
A great majority of naturalist however see mind as a function of machine (Mikayla Danielson)

Death is extinction of personality and individuality
One of the hardest propositions of naturalism for people to accept, yet it is absolutely demanded by the naturalists’’ conception of the universe. (Mikayla Danielson)

History is a linear stream of events linked by cause and effect but without an overarching purpose.
Naturalism began when the universe began (Mikayla Danielson)

(Steven Gibbel the five propositions of naturalism

we are the same thing as machines, we may think, but so do they in a weird sort of Mr. A’s way Nathan
death just brings us to where we were before Nathan
Humans are just complex machines and personality is just a mixture of chemical and physical properties. (Molly Dreblow)

In Theism God is the infinite personal creator and sustainer of the cosmos. In deism God is reduced; he begins to lose his personality, though he remains creator and sustainer of the cosmos. In naturalism God is further reduced; he loses his very existence.(Gracie Tripp)

Not based on faith like other reasons. Solely based off of science and reason. Also incorporates cause and effect like that of deism. (Mark f.)

Bible 12- Naturalism Questions 1 (p. 59-64)

Explain the process for how theism transitioned into naturalism.

In theism, God is the infinite-personal Creator of the universe; in deism, God is reduced and begins to lose his personality; and in naturalism, God loses his very existence.

What theist philosopher set the stage for naturalism by defining the universe as being a mechanism of matter comprehended by the mind?

Rene Descartes

What effect has this had on the Western world and thought since then?

The Western world has found it hard to see itself as an integrated whole.

What other famous philosopher (and great influence on our founding fathers) believed that God-given reason was the best way to deduce truth from the scriptures?

John Locke

What is the first proposition that defines naturalism?

Matter exists eternally and is all there is. God does not exist.

What one idea in the summary that follows the first proposition is the most interesting, odd, or intriguing to you? Why?

Instead of having an eternal Creator, naturalists believe that the cosmos is all there ever was; the cosmos is eternal.

What is the second basic proposition that defines naturalism?

The cosmos exists as a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system.

How is it similar and different to the proposition 2 in deism?

Same idea, but in deism they believed that God set the universe up in that manner.

Is it possible to understand Christianity within the naturalistic worldview? What would one who held to naturalistic view have to believe about Jesus?

No, it excludes the possibility of God, and there is no resurrection; they would have to believe that Jesus is the product of the same evolutionary process as the rest of us.

How would a naturalist most likely be a determinist?

The universe is an unbreakable chain of cause and effect. Humans can’t change the universe. (Ben Suits)

humanism: is the overallattitude that human beings are of special value; their aspirations, their thoughts, their yearnings, are significant. humanism is a practice of naturalism Nathan

Naturalism in practice: Marxism

Marxism: the political, economic, and social theories of Karl Marx including the belief that the struggle between social classes is a major force in history and that there should eventually be a society in which there are no classes

Karl Marx (one of the creators of Marxism) was a naturalists. Marxism and materialists are often linked together. (Katherine Robbins)

Humanist manifesto
http://americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_II (Ryan Ylitalo)

Metaphysical naturalism, also called “ontological naturalism” and “philosophical naturalism”, is a philosophical worldview and belief system that holds that there is nothing but natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind studied by the Natural Sciences. While Methodological naturalism concerns itself not with claims about what exists but with methods of learning what nature is. So essentially there are those who belief and those who attempt to try to solve things based on science and reason. (Nick Erlien)

Explain the process for how theism transitioned into naturalism. Deism Pg. 59
What theist philosopher set the stage for naturalism by defining the universe as being a mechanism of matter comprehended by the mind? Rene Descartes Pg. 60
What effect has this had on the Western world and thought since then? Hard to see itself as an integrated whole
What other famous philosopher (and great influence on our founding fathers) believed that God-given reason was the best way to deduce truth from the scriptures? John Locke
What is the first proposition that defines naturalism? Matter exists eternally and is all there is, God does not exist Pg. 61 Carl Sagan
What one idea in the summary that follows the first proposition is the most interesting, odd, or intriguing to you? Why? That without God the cosmos take his place. How can the cosmos take the place of a creator?
What is the second basic proposition that defines naturalism? The cosmos exists as a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system Pg. 62
How is it similar and different to the proposition 2 in deism? Both closed systems in uniformity except in Deism God created the system
Is it possible to understand Christianity within the naturalistic worldview? What would one who held to naturalistic view have to believe about Jesus? I do not think so. He is the same product of evolution as the rest of us.
How would a naturalist most likely be a determinist? They affirm space, time, matter, held together from within.
(Bryce Nelson)

WikiNotes

Deism [dee-iz-uh m] 
noun

belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism).
belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
“God’s alleged disclosure to man of himself.” (Steven Gibbel)
Deistic thinking has existed since ancient times. Among the Ancient Greeks, Heraclitus conceived of a logos, a supreme rational principle, and said the wisdom “by which all things are steered through all things” was “both willing and unwilling to be called Zeus (God)”. Plato envisaged God as a Demiurge or ‘craftsman’. Outside ancient Greece many other cultures have expressed views that resemble deism in some respects. However, the word “deism”, as it is understood today, is generally used to refer to the movement toward natural theology or freethinking that occurred in 17th-century Europe, and specifically in Britain.(Wikipedia)(Jacob Bergstedt)

Diesm some say was developed as an attempt to bring unity out of a chaos of theological and philosophical discussion.

Diesm is derived from the Latin word deus meaning “god”

three features constituting the core of deism:

Rejection of religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
Rejection of religious dogma and demagogy.
Skepticism of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious “mysteries.”
(Mikayla Danielson)

Deists believe that anyone who studies plants, animals, or minerals are lowering themselves. They think that people who study the body are wasting their time because it only matters to study the spirit. (Amy Lindenberg)

Newtons theory orderly God-orderly universe-machine or clock-other wrong conclusions (Gracie Tripp)

They believe that the only paths towards knowledge are logic and reasoning.
They respect portions of the holy texts of other religions, like the Torah, Christian Scriptures (New Testament) and Qur’an. However, they believe that these books are errant because they were written by humans; they do not believe that any of these books can be considered inherrent, inspired by God or the Word of God.
They believe that miracles do not happen. The “world operates by natural and self-sustaining laws of the creator.” 1That is, the world continues to function under the same laws that God initially established. (Mark Franz)

History
– Started in 17th century
– to bring unity for theological and philosophical debates
– started the development of the practice of science
– originally it was only good to study God
– Deists believed you could only see God in nature(the clockwork) so studying nature was good
(Ryan Ylitalo)

Main Points
– Clockwork God
– Reason is the only way
– Throw away revelation
– Theology was considered the greatest science
– Deism throws away any personal relationship with the Creator
– Its one of the less platonic forms of religion
(Bryce Nelson)

Salvation

I would first like to explain what salvation fully entails to me, before I start discussing whether it is everlasting or has some sort of limitations. This is a question that I have often thought about to myself. How much strength does my salvation hold. I think that there are three huge lies that people believe involving salvation. First, they have screwed up so much in life and have plenty more mistakes ahead them that there is no possible way that they could be saved. Secondly, its too much work to follow all the rules and restrictions, that they should just give up and except their defeat. Thirdly, people think that once they have prayed a payer of repentance and verbal acceptance that Christ is their Savior, and they are all set to go to heaven so they can do most anything their heart desires. I have struggled with this idea of eternal salvation or in other words unending grace.
Christ’s grace is so big that we can’t even start to imagine an end to it. Thats what we try to do though. We tell our selves that we have screwed up too big and His grace won’t reach us. That is a lie.
I believe that the process of salvation is longer than we think it. What I mean by this, is that most people thing the act of salvation is a singular moment in time. Thats why in many peoples testimonies you have the classic line, “I was excepted Jesus into my heart when I was a little kid, but I really was saved…” Why is this you may ask. Its, because salvation is a process in which you continually go through your whole life. We continually walk with Christ and recognize that we are broken vessels that do not belong in Christ’s harbor. We accept the gift daily that he gave us by sacrificing his life on the cross.
This is where sanctification shows up. Sanctification is the continual act of sanctifying our selves in Christ. In other words making our selves clean of all the sinful blemishes we have by accepting Christ’s redeeming gift. Ultimately, I think this is the best way to explain sanctification. “Move away from the things that separate us from God and move towards the things that promote intimacy with Christ.” Ben Stuart The goal is to be able to live in perfect harmony with Christ like Adam did in the garden before he sinned. I think to many people miss out on the fact that salvation is continual throughout our lives.
Tetelestai is the Greek word that we we translate as “It is finished.” The words that Christ used in his final moments of life before He died. You can find this at John 19:30. This word has a lot of meaning in the sense of our salvation. Without Christ doing this act of finishing, are salvation would be non-existent. Christ has finished the job of creating a way for us to be saved. Once we take the gift he has to offer we are saved.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” John 10:27-29
Now this verse clearly states that once you have committed your life over to Christ you can not be “snatched.” I totally believe this. I think that Christ has conquered satan and he has given us power to use against the schemes of the devil. This is where my theory of salvation comes into play. If someone is not walking with the Lord and is living for his flesh. That person will not hear the voice of God. If you do not hear the voice you will not follow and if you do not follow you will be absent from eternal life and perish. I know that this sounds harsh, but I believe it is a reality that many christians need to understand this. Just because you ask Jesus to come into your heart when you were a little kid does not me you have succeeded in salvation…necessarily.
Now its not our jobs to judge, only the Father can do that and only He can see what is in the hear. We can get a good idea of whats in the heart by observing peoples actions. People do what the desires of their heart are.

I will end with this verse.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” John 5:24
One of the most important steps after salvation is one towards the Word. The word is where we will learn to know God and hear what He has to say. This is how we receive eternal life in Heaven.

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Torture

Is torture morally and ethically acceptable in some incidents? I personally believe that it is. It is normally a by-product of war. In times of war I think morals and ethics tend to get pushed away. I am not saying that this is ok, but it is the reality of the situation. War is full of many extremes. Torture would fall into a category of one of these extremes. Now it would be smart to define what exactly torture totally encompasses. Google defines it as, “the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.” Well this is a very broad spectrum, for one inflicting sever pain seems a bit unnecessary. Normal pain can’t do the trick? I would be more in favor of minimizing sever/scaring pain and focus more on continual discomfort and high intensity situations. Secondly, I do not believe that the act of torturing someone should ever be used as punishment or as a consequence. It should only be enforced to get information. Lastly, the definition ends with the phrase “for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain,” this idea should be very far away from the idea of torment. Putting someone through torment singularly for your own pleasure, is pure evil. Oliver Queen once said, “When dealing with extremists, you need to be willing to take extreme measures.” I think this is a good way to look at torture. As long as it is done within reason.
The events that have taken place in “Gitmo” although they may be harsh its a necessary action. Now I do not think that all of their techniques are perfectly sound. I think when people are treated pass the line of humanity, we as a nation have failed. As the Bible says we should leave judgment up to God. We should never torture someone out of revenge. It is not our job to pay our wrong doers back. We need to trust that Christ will ultimately force justice on them. If torture is the route that needs to be taken, it must be done in a manner to strictly find out information and thats it.
On Dec. 14th Dick Cheney was interviewed on NBC’s Meet the Press. He was asked about his thoughts on the fresh release of the CIA’s torture program. He was very blunt and forthright in his opinion. “Waterboarding, the way we did it, was, in fact, not torture.” This is a direct quote from the interview. Now under the definition that google gave, it defiantly is a form of torture. Dick should have recognized that what they were doing in Gitmo was torture. It may have not been the most severe form, but it still is. Its always better to be honest about things instead of ignoring the fact that they are there. Cheney also said, “when you’re dealing with terrorists, the likes of al-Qaida or the ISIS, I haven’t seen them waterboard anybody. What they did is cut their heads off.” Now I would respond to that with a reference to the Bible, Romans 12:2. The verse refers to resisting from conforming to the patterns of this world. Just because our enemies treat people un a inhuman way does not mean that we should do. One more quote from Dick, “we got authorizing from the president and authorization from the Justice Department to go forward with the program.” The problem I have with this is he’s basically saying that our nation’s leader should just do what the president says and ignore the fact that what they are doing is wrong. Also, it kind of distills a little fear in me that the evil things that the CIA has released has been authorized by the president and the Justice Department. Titus 3:1, is one of multiple times the Bible makes it clear that we should obey those God has placed in authority over us. So what if you are just obeying orders. Maybe the CIA was obeying an order to find information at all costs.
The reason I referenced former Vice President Cheney’s interview is because I believe its how many react to torture. Its all about justification. People do things that they know full well they would feel very different about if the tables were turned. I think that we as christians need to stand out above the mainstream agendas. So with torture, the Bible clearly states that it is not our job to find justice. Also, I have recently learned that the Bible shows that its not always right to do things for the greater good. Where in Jesus’ teachings does he express that numbers are more important than the individual. I believe as a christian that tormenting people is not right, but when it comes to war I think that it may be ok to implement it in some human ways as mentioned before to get information.

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